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Tim Small's avatar

So the house mouthpiece for deregulation decides that the best possible gift for business owners is more workers willing to work for shit wages and that everyone should be overjoyed by that. Nope, not a surprise - but hey, at least they made a lame token effort to slather-on the nerdy obfuscation - albeit with a typically Century 21 sloppiness. At least we know they aren’t really getting any smarter.

Tim Small's avatar

How ‘liberal’ should they be? Do tell.

N Martin's avatar

So you switched from exploitation of hapless immigrants to open borders. It doesn’t have to be an “open border,” but the US will be sunk without a lot of immigrants, so liberalize the laws.

N Martin's avatar

My ex is from Guatemala. She overstayed her visa and remained illegally for 9 years before we married. She initially worked (very hard) for what you would consider shit wages, but at what she considered rewarding and motivating work. Then she moved up, and up, and became a management consultant project manager. I can’t say for sure, but I’m pretty sure she has lifetime earnings over $2 million, possibly close to $3 million. I noticed recently that she was given an award for improving hospital safety. So, now you can bitch that immigrants take the best jobs, and to hell with hospital safety.

Tim Small's avatar

I taught middle and high school for a long time, including 21 years in south central LA schools. Most of my students there - in 4 different schools - were Hispanic. I always rooted for them and their families to prosper and succeed, and, given the social and economic circumstances they lived with, the odds against them were formidable. It was always evident that many were ‘undocumented’ and at once trying to avoid deportation and gain enough traction to take-on the citizenship process. My comment isn’t meant as an affront to anyone that succeeded or any that are working toward that goal. You’re imputing extra baggage to what I said, apparently mistaking it for something it isn’t.

My beef is with the employers willing to take advantage of the desperation of people fleeing here. It’s not inaccurate to characterize the wages as ‘shit’ if they are sub-minimum wage, include no benefits, etc. The fact is that an extensive economic eco-system thrives on exploiting people desperate for work. And it was allowed to exist because business owners wanted it to.

The well-deserved success of an individual isn’t a legitimate argument for giving employers of undocumented labor a pass. The person in question ‘made it’ in spite of her difficulties, and her success is hers alone, not a gift from the people who perpetuate a system that pads its bottom-line on the backs of refugees.

Her success is also not a legitimate defense of an open-borders policy. As noted, the expense of supporting humane treatment of refugees is disproportionately borne by states. It’s necessary but impossible to provide the support for free. As a teacher it wasn’t my job to investigate the citizenship status of my students, and I had no desire to do so. I didn’t want them or their families to be deported. I had had a high school friend nailed by ‘Immigration’ and sent back to Mexico years after having completed all of his K-12 education in California, and the decision was devastating. I never saw him again. So, in case you’re wondering, my stance isn’t based on prejudice or racism.

Encouraging illegal immigration isn’t a humane policy. The desperate people who make it past the border, living in the economic and social shadows, are subject to criminal predation and exploitation. They also, collectively, lower the wage floor for citizens. None of that is a collective good.

N Martin's avatar

I’ve known many illegal immigrant workers. The mostly know exactly what they will find upon arrival. They have friends and family in the US and communicate regularly by phone. What you call exploitation they call a better opportunity, and they return whenever they are unhappy.

The best most Mexicans can hope for in Mexico is about $500 a month, which they can earn in less than a week working at a US McDonald’s. And rents are surprisingly high in Mexico, not to mention the threat of violence in most of Mexico. Much the same is true in other immigrant countries. I’ve also known many Chinese immigrants, and they are overwhelmingly satisfied with their jobs, though the masseuses would like to be left alone by the police.

Tim Small's avatar

There’s no denying they come knowing they can improve their situation. Why else would they bother? The vast majority are fleeing economies that can’t adequately support their native population. By what logic does that justify an open border policy on the part the US? Do the people who are already here - in LoCali, a significant number are legal immigrants - have a place in an equation that will render results effecting their own material prospects? FWIW, the Cato Institute is a venerable mouthpiece for ultra-libertarian Econ policy, heavily influenced by Ayn Rand and her heavyweight acolytes. Inquire deeply enough and you’ll uncover a strong element of apathy toward working stiffs, canon fodder for the gilded dreams of The Entrepreneurial Elect. You can live in that world by their sufferance, but you’ll never be rich enough to rate their esteem.

David J. Bier's avatar

This article is so wrong it should simply be retracted. Read the response before you believe anything in here: https://www.cato.org/blog/manhattan-institutes-false-criticisms-vindicate-catos-immigration-report-part-1